Agenda item

The Audit Committee operates under an agreed programme of core business, in accordance with its Terms of Reference as set out in the Council’s Constitution. The Committee is asked to review and note its monitoring report/action log for the 2023/24 council year.

The Committee was asked to review and note its monitoring report/action list for the 2023/24 council year (a copy of which had been filed with the signed minutes).

Regarding Action 1, J. Willis, Executive Director for Resources and Transformation (S151) advised that an informal update on progress made was due to take place with Group Leaders.  Following this a formal report would be drafted for the November meeting of Audit Committee.  

Councillor Wallace questioned why members of the Audit Committee would have to wait until November to receive the update.  He asked if Audit Committee could receive the update via email to stop any further delays.  The November meeting could then discuss the update in public session.  In response J. Willis commented that members had requested a formal report be produced for Audit Committee which was what she had been working towards.  An email could be sent to members, but this was not asked for originally.  She reassured members that progress was being made with the action plan and many of the recommendations put forward by the Challenge Board had already been completed.  The BEST programme had incorporated some of the improvements identified and the relevant overview and scrutiny committee was due to receive a report on this soon.  J. Willis stated that an all member briefing could also be arranged if deemed appropriate by councillors.

Councillor Grimshaw asked for the update on progress being made following the Caller Report include the work taking place with staff and councillors, particularly around ensuring female voices in the workplace were being heard.  J. Willis confirmed that this would form part of the update.

The Deputy Leader explained that the progress against the action plan and recommendations of the Challenge Board would be reported in various places.  Aspects would be reported to Audit, others to the Staff and Appointments Committee and others to the Corporate Services and Economic Growth Overview and Scrutiny Committee.  However, Group Leaders would be given a briefing in the next few days on progress made which they would hopefully share and discuss within their individual groups.  

Members agreed to receive a report regarding Action 1 at their November meeting of Audit Committee.  

Regarding Action 2, Councillor Dale commented on recruitment and sickness issues across services.  She stated that there needed to be a whole system approach.  She believed the transformation programme needed to be measured against recruitment and sickness levels to ensure council services could continue to be delivered effectively and efficiently.

Councillor Jackson commented that he felt that the item should not be removed from the action list as Audit Committee needed to continue to examine the business case to ensure the funding put aside in the Council’s budget was value for money.

J. Willis queried what additional information the Audit Committee would like to see as the Strategic Business Case had been scrutinised and approved by Cabinet.  Also, the BEST update was to be considered by the relevant overview and scrutiny committee along with the annual workforce update.  In response Councillor Jackson stated that the value for money aspect was what he wanted to see at a future meeting.

Councillor Oliver stated he would welcome an update report on the Strategic Transformation Programme Business Case.

Councillor Dale felt that a holistic report was needed which included issues on recruitment, value for money and delivery of services to ensure the business case was helping to transform the business of the Council.

Members agreed that Action 2 remain on the list but be reworded to ‘receive an update and discuss further’.  

Councillor Jackson commented that there were a couple of items that he had expected to see on the action list that had been omitted following the last meeting of Audit Committee.  He asked for a detailed report on dismissals of statutory officers following the investigation into exit payments as discussed at the last meeting of Audit Committee be added to the action list.  He stated that there was legislation regarding dismissals and felt it was important Audit Committee be advised of these regulations to understand how the Council had acted.  His view was that there has been quite a lot of illegal activity in the past which needed scrutinised by Audit Committee.  He also asked for Councillor Dale’s request from the last meeting regarding more detail on exit interviews be placed on the action list.

The Monitoring Officer advised caution with some of the language being used.  He stated that the term ‘illegal’ had not been used within the Review of Exit Payments report prepared for the last meeting of Audit Committee nor in his advice given.  

Councillor Dale stated that the exit interviews could be included within a workforce report as it was a general area to investigate, not just when chief officers left the authority.  She felt that with regard to exit payments the Council needed to look forward not backwards.

Councillor Grimshaw hoped that the Council had learnt lessons following the Caller report and was moving forward.  She felt that Audit Committee could not keep looking at the past.

The Chair agreed that repeating past issues would not be beneficial.  However, if members felt there were more questions that needed to be answered then they should have the opportunity to ask them.

Councillor Cessford questioned the role of Audit Committee if they could not look at past issues.  He stated that the committee needed to audit what had happened in the past and without thorough answers they could not fulfil their role.  

Councillor Oliver stated he believed there needed to be accountability.  Lessons had been learnt but not all, particularly around where processes had failed.  The Exit Payment Report considered at the last Audit Committee stated there had been over £1 million in unlawful payments.  He stated that there were laws regarding the misuse of public funds.  If someone had broken those laws, then he felt they were illegal.  He suggested a short paper on whether the Council should make a police referral and a true distinction on the definition of unlawful and illegal.  He spoke about other local authorities who had made referrals to the police for lesser issues.  He felt that by referring the issue to the police they could investigate fully and get to the bottom of the issue.  He thanked officers for the significant reports already produced on this issue which showed absolute transparency, but they had stopped short of accountability.

J. Willis reiterated the comments she had made at the last meeting of Audit Committee.  She stated there was currently no evidence to suggest any illegal activity had taken place regarding the exit payments identified within her report brought to the last meeting.  However, she stated that she was continuing to look into the issue.  Furthermore, she updated members by advising them that Internal Audit was currently carrying out extra investigatory work and further legal advice was being sought.  Once she had fully considered these additional matters, she would decide whether a referral to Northumbria Police was needed.  She stated that if or when sufficient evidence came back to make a referral, she would, but it was not something that she would do lightly.  

Councillor Dale commented on the errors within the Constitution during the time of the unlawful exit payments and stated that she was happy to share the files she had kept from that era of her concerns and evidence gathered.

Members agreed to add the following requests to the action list; report on dismissals of past statutory officers, further report on exit payments and a workforce report including information on exit interviews.

Action 3.  It was noted that the next six-monthly report had been scheduled for the January 2024 meeting.

Action 4 to remain on the action list until the discussion between Councillor Grimshaw and J. Willis had taken place.

Action 5 could be removed from the list as the discussion between J. Willis and Councillor Dale had taken place.

RESOLVED that the monitoring report/action list and comments made be noted.